Mr Hearne says that such an agency would ensure that public housing could be built in a viable manner as it would eliminate, among other things, the profits made by builders and developers.

“It’s what we used to do and we should do it again,” Mr Hearne said on the Mick Clifford podcast. 

Mr Flynn disputed this and said that “that ship has long sailed and we have to deal with the practical issues we have now.” 

“There is no reality to that and it would just make a bad situation worse,” he said.

“There is a complete utter and false narrative that the private sector are making large profits.” 

In a robust debate in which the pair repeatedly clashed, another issue of contention was the price and use of land. 

Mr Hearne, whose recent book on the housing crisis, Gaffs, has been a best-seller, pointed out that land is cheaper in the public sector and doesn’t have to be bought in the open market. 

He also stated that sourcing finance for public housing would be easier than in the private market.

“The private sector has a much higher cost of obtaining finance so it is much cheaper for the state to fund it,” he said.

Mr Hearne had previously written in the Irish Examiner that developers hoarding land was one of the big problems in the current crisis, a charge that Mr Flynn rejected.

“I’m not hoarding land and I never have,” he said. 

“The cheaper we can buy land the better we can sell an affordable product to the market. Hoarding land is a catchphrase people like to use. A lot of land (that is zoned) is not viable. You can’t build any product at a loss. Very few if any developers that I know would hoard land. We must have land in the pipeline of we won’t have continuity and keep our key employees and subcontractors. There may be landowners who feel it’s not the right time to sell but that’s another matter.” 

Michael O’Flynn and Rory Hearne were this week’s guests on the Mick Clifford podcast.